|
|
#1
04-08-2007
|
||||
|
||||
Discussion- C4 Cheats, Bugs and Exploits
C4 - Triche - Bugs - Exploits - Traduction français par Schwartzhorse
1. Indicated difficulty level does not necessarily reflect true difficulty level when a saved game is loaded. This is a bug in C4. Nothing we can do about it, but players should be aware that the indicated difficulty level is not necessarily the actual difficulty level. Difficulty level can be checked by looking at the price of houses. Small Villa: 125dn = hard, 100dn = normal, 50dn = easy. 1 - Le niveau de difficulté indiqué dans une sauvegarde chargée n'est pas systématiquement le bon . C'est un bug dans C4 . On ne peut rien y faire , juste attirer l'attention des joueurs sur le fait que le niveau de difficulté indiqué peut ne pas être le niveau actuel .Ce niveau de difficulté peut être controlé en consultant le prix des maisons : petite villa = 125 dn niveau difficile , = 100 dn niveau normal , = 50 dn niveau facile . 2. Laying plazas and then undoing them causes desirability effect to remain, this is stackable. Desirability obtained this way is lost when a save game is loaded. My suggestion is that we leave this up to individual contest designers. It is possible to disable plazas using scripting but not from the map editor itself. 2 - Placer des plazzas , puis les effacer avec le bouton "undo" permet de conserver l'effet de désirabilité L'effet de désirabilité obtenu de cette manière est perdu lorsqu'une sauvegarde est chargée . Chaque concepteur peut statuer sur cet effet . Il est possible de déactiver les plazzas dans le script mais non dans l'éditeur de cartes lui même . 3. Use of cheat codes included in game design. Can be overcome by forcing a victory screen. The victory screen will say “You Cheated” if cheat codes have been used or if certain game files have been edited. C4 designers should ensure that a victory screen appears or can be made to appear subsequent to final saves. Edit (27 Mar 2010) Use of the cheat code "savings" does not cause "You Cheated" to appear in a victory screen. Designers wishing to make a contest with Governor's Savings being an integral part will need to make some provision for the possible use of this cheat. 3 - Usage des codes de triche possibles dans le jeu lui-même Peut être détecté en imposant un écran de victoire . L'écran de victoire indiquera " Vous avez triché " si les codes de triche ont été utilisés ou si certains fichiers du jeu ont été édités . Les designers C4 doivent s'assurer qu'un écran de victoire apparaisse ou puisse être provoqué au moment de la sauvegarde finale . 4. Editing of constant files. Likewise as for 3. 4 - Edition de fichiers du jeu lui-même Identique au point 3 5. Editing of map-specific files, particularly editing scripted events. This is a problem, since editing of the cs file does not cause the You Cheated message to appear. There are possibilities for overcoming these cheating opportunities, and these will need to be implemented scenario by scenario by designers. Rather than make these public, it may be preferable to discuss this aspect on the Designer forum. 5 - Edition de fichiers spécifiques à une carte , particulièrement édition des fichiers qui provoquent les évènements Celà constitue un problème car l'édition des fichier .cs n'entraine pas l'apparition du message de triche .Il existe des possibilités pour maîtriser ces occasions de triches qui doivent être incorporées dans le script du scénario par les designers . Plutôt qu'en discution publique , celà sera évoqué dans le forum des concepteurs . 6. Gifts to Caesar (not a bug, more a cheeze). It is possible to disable all but small gifts in the Editor, and it is also possible to use up all these small gifts prior to the start, so gifting can effectively be disabled if the designer wishes. It is also possible using scripting to switch between gifting being enabled and disabled during a scenario. Thus the contest designer has ample control over this aspect of the scenario. Edit 14Oct08 It is possible to effectively disable gifts to Caesar, and also to disable personal salary changes by the player, by disabling build buttons in the script. 6 - Cadeaux à César ( non un bug , plutôt une facilité ) Il est possible de désactiver tous les cadeaux hormis les petits dans l'éditeur , et on peut aussi envoyer tous ces petits cadeaux avant le début de la mission , ainsi les cadeaux peuvent être désactivés si le designer le souhaite. Possibilités aussi par le biais du script d'activer et désactiver les cadeaux au cours du scénario .Le designer a donc un contrôle total sur cet aspect du scénario . Edit 14/10/08 : Possibilités également d'empêcher les changements de salaire personnel par le joueur en mettant hors service les boutons afférents dans le script. 7. Ability to reduce pleb and equite wages to low levels by controlling happiness. This appears to be an intended game feature. Pleb and equite wages can be set well below standard provided happiness in maintained in other ways, eg low sales tax, provision of multiple foods, culture buildings, etc. I don’t think it is either desirable or feasible to attempt to curtail this practice. 7 - Habilité pour réduire au minimum les salaires des plebs et équités en controlant la béatitude . Celà paraît être une caractéristique voulue dans le jeu . Les salaires des plebs et équités peuvent être inférieurs au salaire standard , tant que le contentement est maintenu d'une autre manière , par ex. des taxes basses, accès à de multiples nourritures , présence de bâtiments de culture , etc . Il n'est pas souhaitable ou réalisable de court-circuiter cette pratique . 8. Loss of 1 favor point at year's end does not occur if game is re-loaded from a save during the relevant year. Since we require a save to be made each December, it is not unreasonable to expect that players will themselves use these saves for the purpose of avoiding loss of favor. My suggestion is that this exploit be allowable, but we make it known to players. 8 - La perte de 1 point de faveur au changement d'année est abolie par le re-chargement d'une sauvegarde avant la fin de l'année Comme nous réclamons une sauvegarde chaque mois de décembre , il est naturel d'envisager que les joueurs utilisent cette sauvegarde afin d'éviter cette perte de faveur . La suggestion est que cette pratique est permise mais doit être portée à la connaissance de tous . 9. Free removal of underbrush, small rocks, small trees, etc by placing a structure, then undo. I believe this is an intended game feature. Perhaps not intended is that the cost of roads also includes the cost of clearing the ground, but only the road cost is refunded when you undo. With other structures the clearing is free of charge. My suggestion is that we leave this one alone and make players aware of its existence. 9 - Disparition gratuite de buissons , petits cailloux , petits arbres en construisant puis effaçant une structure . Celà paraît être une caractéristique voulue dans le jeu . La disparition gratuite des éléments lors de la construction d'une route n'est peut-être pas voulue , mais seul le montant de la route est reversé si vous effacez cette route. Avec les autres structures le nettoyage est gratuit . On peut conserver celà mais avertir les joueurs de cette possibilité . 10 Free roads along coastline available by building then undoing ship bridges. Similar to C3 where free roads could be obtained by using undo on gatehouses (as well as by the more well known method of dragging onto the interface bar). Seems to me so minor that we needn’t really worry about it. If any contest designer is concerned about the use of the undo button, apparently it can be disabled using scripting. 10 - Routes gratuites en bord de mer en construisant/détruisant les ponts . Semblable à l'obtention des routes gratuites dans C3 en construisant/détruisant les portes de la ville ( de même que la méthode bien connue de poursuivre la route dans l'interface ) . Celà semble suffisamment minime pour être ignorer . De plus si un designer le souhaite , il peut désactiver le bouton d'effacement (undo) . 11. Micromanagement of Markets to Minimise Consumption I’m not exactly sure of the procedure involved, but I understand a method exists to limit consumption of market goods to one unit per house as a means of getting greater numbers of houses to upgrade. I don’t propose we do anything about this, it just seems like expert game play to me. Edit 14Oct07- The procedure used is to delete or mothball all Mercury temples and shrines. This makes householders only able to carry one unit. It also effectively halves the production rate of clay, iron, marble, gold and sand camps for the same reason, so be careful with this one. 11 - Micro-management des marchés pour réduire la consommation La procédure utilisée n'est pas réellement établie , mais il existe une possibilité de limiter la consommation à 1 nourriture par maison dans le but d'avoir plus de maisons à faire évoluer . Aucune action ici puisque celà représente une façon experte de jouer le jeu . Edit 14/10/07 : la procédure est de détruire ou fermer tous les temples et autels de Mercure . Celà implique que les acheteurs ne peuvent transporter qu'une seule unité à la fois . Mais celà influe pareillement sur la production des chantiers d'argile , fer , marbre , or et sable , donc utilisez celà avec précaution . 12. Delete/Undo of Unhappy Houses Sometimes when unhappy houses are deleted and then undone, the same occupants move back in but happiness is restored to starting level. It doesn’t always work, though. All I can offer for this one is that it is possible to disable the undo button, that is the only way I can think of to control this one. It is possible to maintain an unhappy city indefinitely by mothballing the unhappy houses (without food) and having an equivalent number of houses which are at the same time unmothballed. If the game is then saved and reloaded the unhappy mothballed houses will no longer be unhappy, and the procedure can be repeated as required. 12 - Destruction / Effacement des maisons mécontentes . Quelquefois lorsque l'on détruit/puis restaure ( avec le bouton undo ) des maisons mécontentes , les mêmes habitants reviennent mais la satisfaction est remise au point neutre . Celà ne fonctionne pas à tous les coups. La seule possibilité envisagée ici est de désactiver le bouton d'effacement (undo) pour controler celà . Il est possible de conserver indéfiniment une cité mécontente en fermant les maisons non satisfaites ( sans nourriture) tout en ayant au même moment des aisons vacantes accessibles . Si l'on sauvegarde et recharge le jeu à ce moment-là , les maisons fermées mécontentes ne le seront plus , et la procédure peut être répétée à souhait . 13. Use of Aquaducts to Create An Impenetrable Barrier to Invaders. By building joining aqueduct ground-piers, an impenetrable barrier can be created. I’m not sure how this works, but invaders just stand around and can be wiped out by towers, etc. Along with the fact that invasions can be edited in the script file, this makes designing military maps very iffy indeed. Designers could ban the use of aquaducts as a defensive structure on a mission by mission basis. Edit: 14Oct07; Such an illegally spaced aqueduct can be hidden inside walls, but this appears to render the cheat useless, ie the walls behave as normal walls which can be climbed or destroyed by invaders so capable. 13 - Utilisation des aqueducs comme barrière impénétrable pour les envahisseurs . En construisant des rangées d'aqueducs accolés , une barrière impénétrable peut être créée . Sans savoir exactement pourquoi , les envahisseurs restent juste immobiles devant et peuvent être anéantis par des tours. Comme il est aussi possible d'éditer les fichiers de script pour les invasions , celà rend la conception de cartes militaires très aléatoire . Les designers peuvent interdire , mission par mission , l'utilisation des aqueducs en tant que structure défensive . Edit 14/10/07 : ces structures d'aqueducs illégales peuvent être cachées dans des murs , mais celà semble annuler l'effet de fraude , car les murs apparaissent normaux et peuvent être escaladés ou détruits par les envahisseurs . 14. Fooling People Regarding Food and Commodities When houses have multiple foods, the amount of each food consumed is not necessarily equal. The amount consumed is proportionate to the amount of each food in the house. Food consumption is rounded down, and food is consumed in the order grain, vegetables, meat. This means that if a house has 1 meat, it will not consume that 1 meat provided there is enough grain and/or vegetables to feed the house. This means that houses can be fooled into thinking they have multiple foods when really only one food is being supplied. Something similar applies to commodities. Not something you can ban, it is here to make players aware of it. 14 - Duperie des habitants pour la nourriture et les biens . Lorsque les maisons ont de multiples nourriture , la consommation de chaque type n'est pas égale .La quantité consommée est proportionnelle à la quantité de chaque nourriture dans la maison . La consommation est arrondie de façon basse , et la nourriture est consommée dans cet ordre : blé , légumes , viande . Celà signifie que si la maison possède 1 viande , elle ne sera pas consommé à condition qu'il y ait assez de blé/légumes dans la maison . Celà signifie que la maison peut être dupée en supposant qu'elle dispose de multiples nourritures mais qu'en fait une seule est consommée . Chose similaire pour les biens . Cette procédure ne peut être interdite, seule l'attention des joueurs peut être attirée ici . 15. Cohorts Getting Stuck in Drill Yards Occasionally, cohorts become frozen in drill yards while training. Their training stops accumulating when this happens. Deleting or mothballing the drill yard may help, but the only certain way of getting them out that I know of is to order them to deploy when an enemy invasion occurs. Cohorts have been known to get stuck in places like walls as well. From what I can gather an enemy invasion frees them from this state as well. 15 - Armées bloquées dans les camps d'entraînement . Occasionnellement les troupes se figent dans les camps d'entraînement . Leur niveau d'entraînement cesse d'augmenter lorsque celà arrive . Détruire ou fermer le camp peut aider , mais la seule façon certaine de les faire sortir est d'ordonner leur déploiement lorsqu'une invasion ennemie apparaît . Les troupes peuvent aussi se figer près des murs , et la précédente méthode devrait fonctionner tout aussi bien . 16. Opening/Closing and Manipulation of Trade Routes Occasionally when a trade route is opened (or re-opened if it has been closed by scripting) traders do not come until the start of the following year. Sometimes a single trader comes and then no more until the following year. The workaround is to try to open trade routes just before the end of a year rather than at the start of a year, if possible. Because this seems to be a random bug, reverting to a previous save may also help. If a trade route is closed by the script, traders continue to come until the end of the current year OR twelve months from when the route was last opened, whichever is later. After this time, traders no longer come if the route remains closed, but the trade numbers are not reset at the start of the new year. They are reset when the trade route is re-opened. If a trade route is closed by the script and then re-opened in the same year (or opened by the script without having been closed), all trade numbers are rest to zero. This can lead to players being able to trade more than the trade city's quotas and gaining a significant financial advantage if able to manipulate the trade trigger, particularly where the trade city trades a high volume item alongside a high price item (meaning more traders per year are spawned). Designers beware! 16 - Ouverture /Fermeture et manipulation des routes commerciales . Occasionnellement lorsqu'une route commerciale est ouverte ( ou re-ouverte lorsqu'elle a été fermée par le script ) les commerçants ne viennent pas avant la nouvelle année . Quelquefois un seul commerçant vient puis aucun autre jusqu'à la nouvelle année . L'astuce est d'essayer d'ouvrir les routes commerciales juste avant la fin de l'année plutôt qu'au tout début , dans la mesure du possible . Comme celà semble un bug aléatoire , revenir à une sauvegarde précédente peut aussi aider. Lorsqu'une route commerciale est fermée par le script , les commerçants continuent de venir jusqu'à la fin de l'année OU pendant 12 mois après l'ouverture de cette route , le plus récent des deux . Passé ce délai les commerçants ne viennent plus si la route reste fermée , mais les quotas de commerce ne sont pas réinitialisés au début de la nouvelle année . Ils ne sont réinitialisés que lorsque la route commerciale est re-ouverte . Si une route commerciale est fermée par le script puis re-ouverte dans la même année (ou ouverte par le script sans avoir été fermée ) tous les quotas commerciaux sont remis à zéro . Celà peut permettre aux joueurs maîtrisant la manipulation des combines commerciales de commercer plus que les quotas prévus et de gagner des avantages financiers conséquents , surtout lorsque la ville possède de hauts quotas commerciaux pour un produit onéreux ( celà signifie qu'un plus grand nombre de commerçant est généré annuellement ) Designers attention ! 17. Absence of Credit Limit Although the map editor has the facility to set a credit limit, this does not work in-game. Hence a player can amass a huge debt in order to get a city built and functioning very quickly, and this often leads to a strong economic position. Designers can overcome this issue in several ways. It is possible to script defeat at a certain level of debt (this leads to sudden loss of the mission), it is also possible to script other events like earthquakes and fires in response to debt over a certain level. Additionally, it is possible to disable gifts to Caesar which means the player in debt is unable to counteract the favor loss that this causes. 17 - Absence de limite de crédit . Bien que l'éditeur de carte procure la possibilité d'imposer une limite de crédit , celà ne fonctionne pas dans le jeu .Ainsi un joueur peut accumuler un énorme débit dans l'optique d'avoir une ville construite et opérationnelle très rapidemment , et celà amène très souvent à une position économique forte . Les designers peuvent maîtriser celà de plusieurs manières . Il est possible de prévoir une défaîte dans le script à partir d'un certain niveau de débit (cela entraîne la défaîte de la mission ) il est aussi possible de programmer d'autres évènements dans le script ,comme des tremblements de terre ou des incendies à partir d'un certain niveau de débit . De plus il est possible de désactiver les cadeaux à César ce qui signifie que le joueur en débit est incapable de compenser la perte de faveur. 18. Repeated Salary payments If a player saves a game immediately after receiving their monthly salary, and reloads from this save, they will be paid that month's salary again. This process can be repeated (it seems) almost indefinitely. The salary payments are still taken from the treasury, and if the salary level exceeds the governor's rank, the favor penalty will still be incurred each time. The bug thus becomes significant in a contest like Arabian Bizarre where the level of personal savings forms part of the win criteria. It's effect can be limited by imposing a cap on any points that may be accrued from personal savings. It would also be quite possible to detect any repeated salary payments by scripting. 18 - Répétition des paiements de salaire . Si un joueur sauvegarde le jeu immédiatement après la réception du salaire mensuel , et recharge la partie avec cette sauvegarde , le salaire mensuel est à nouveau attribué . Ce processus semble pouvoir être répété à l'infini .Les paiements de salaires sont toujours déduits de la trésorerie , et si le salaire excède celui normalement prévu par le rang du gouverneur , la pénalité dans la faveur est actualisée à chaque fois . Ce bug est apparu conséquent dans un concours tel que Arabian Bizarre où le niveau des ressources personnelles constituait une partie du critère de vitoire . Ce fait peut être circonscrit en imposant une limite maximale sur l'accumulation des économies personnelles à n'importe quel moment . Il doit aussi être possible de détecter ces répétitions de paiement de salaire par le script . 19. Military Requests Sent at Expiry Date You can send any imperial request up to and including when the final pop up appears (provided you have the goods). In the case of commodities this works OK, but in the case of a military request, if cohorts are sent from the failure pop-up, neither the favor increase nor the favor decrease is made, and the cohorts are lost. 19 - Requètes militaires envoyées à la date d'expiration . Vous pouvez envoyer n'importe quelle requète impériale jusqu'au , et même lorsque , le message de requète final apparaît ( à condition de posséder les biens ) . Dans le cas des biens celà fonctionne , mais dans le cas des requètes militaires , si les troupes sont envoyées au moment du message final , la faveur n'augmente ni ne décroît , et les troupes sont perdues . 20. Wage and Tax Manipulation It is possible to manipulate taxes and wages using a factory as a clock and changing rates just before the month changes over, and again just after the month changes. Similar to the exploit used in C3. Designers may if they wish rule no tax and/or wage changes in a mission, but this has other consequences. Players cannot then alter taxes or wages having raised the happiness of their citizens by legitimate means, which is certainly a valid strategy. A designer can disable wage changes for all or part of a mission but this would mean wages cannot be adjusted legitimately as per Item 7. These are advanced strategies, and it is hoped and expected that players using them would compete in hard difficulty. 20 - Manipulation de taxes et salaires . Il est possible de manipuler les salaires et les taxes en utilisant une fabrique comme chronomètre et en modifiant les valeurs juste avant le changement de mois , puis juste après . Cette manipulation est identique à celle utilisée dans C3 . Les designers peuvent , s'ils le souhaitent , imposer une impossibilité de changement de salaires et taxes dans les missions , mais celà aura d'autres conséquences . Les joueurs ne pourront plus à ce moment-là modifier les salaires et taxes dans le but légitime d'intensifier le bonheur de leurs habitants ,procédé considéré comme stratégie valable . Un designer peut désactiver le changement de salaire pour la totalité ou une partie de la mission , mais celà signifiera que les salaires ne pourront être ajustés légitimement comme dans le point 7 . Ce sont des stratégies de haut niveau , et il est souhaitable et attendu que les joueurs les utilisant concourent au niveau difficile . 21. Wall/Undo Button Bug If you attempt to build a wall that overlaps the edge of the map - such that when you try to "drag" the wall you see some green and and red tiles displayed, then the wall will not be built (obviously) and no construction cost incurred. However you are then able to click on the "undo" button, as if you were undoing the building of the section of the wall. When you do that the game will credit you with the amount of denarii that the section of wall would have cost - despite the fact that you did not actually spend any money. This can be repeated ad infinitum - meaning that players can add as much denarii as they want to the city treasury. Designers have a number of options available to prevent exploit of this bug, the simplest being to disable the building of walls. This will limit security and the evolution of housing. Another is to disable the "undo" button (unlikely to be popular with players) or have the script alternatively disable/enable the undo and wall buttons (such that both buttons are not enabled at the same time). Use of the exploit is also detectable from the Finance Advisor screen (though this would require access to all of the traditional "December" saves). 21 - Murs / Bug du bouton d'effacement (undo) Si vous essayez de construire un mur sur les bords extrêmes de la carte , de telle sorte que lorsque vous visualisez le tracé du mur des zones vertes et rouges apparaissent simultanément , à ce moment-là le mur ne sera pas bâti ( évidement) et aucun coût de construction ne sera déduit . Cependant vous pouvez à ce moment-là cliquer sur le bouton d'effacement , comme si vous souhaitiez effacer la construction de ce mur . Lorsque vous procédez ainsi le jeu vous crédite le montant financier que le mur aurait coûté , bien qu'il ne vous ait réellement absolument rien coûté .Ce processus peut être répété à l'infini , autrement dit les joueurs peuvent ajouter autant de denarii qu'ils le souhaitent dans les caisses de la ville . Les designers ont un certain nombre d'options disponibles pour prévenir l'exploitation de ce bug , le plus simple étant de désactiver la construction des murs . Celà limitera la sécurité et l'évolution des maisons . Une autre solution serait de désactiver le bouton d'effacement (undo ) (option peu appréciée par les joueurs ) , ou prévoir dans le script d'activer/désactiver alternativement les bouton d'effacement et celui de construction des murs ( de telle sorte que les deux boutons ne soient pas opérationnel en même temps ) . L'utilisation de cet "exploit" est aussi détectable sur l'écran du Conseiller financier ( mais celà impliquera la réclamation de toutes les sauvegardes traditionnellement exigées chaque Décembre . 22. Perusal/Studying of Script File The perusal and studying of the script (cs) file in order to gain an advantage in a contest is neither allowed nor endorsed by CBC. It should be understood that doing this disadvantages players who do not understand the programming language, and thus creates an uneven playing field. Designers should acknowledge PM's received but are free to not answer questions relating to the script, where this has come about because of players reading the script. Designers might wish to use a encryption program, such as Trium's CSO, to make the script less readable. Likewise, the perusal of the xml file is not encouraged. It is acknowledged that those translating the xml will obviously need to read it, and the xml is also more "readable" to someone without programming literacy than is the script. There is absolutely nothing to prevent a designer placing "red herrings" in the xml, that is messages that do not in fact appear in the game, but are put there to throw off those who would look at the xml. On a contest by contest basis, designers may decide to allow or disallow a particular game cheat or exploit, or may design a contest in which every trick in the book is allowed. Selon les concours les designers décideront d'accorder ou d'interdire l'utilisation de certains exploits ou triches , ou pourront aussi créer un concours où tout sera permis . Last edited by goonsquad; 03-26-2010 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Edited No 3, added No 22. 
|
|
#2
04-08-2007
|
|||
|
|||
|
Definitely do not disable the undo button, cos without it, playing the game would be a pain - everyone makes boobs
 .You cant do anything about the exploits - just level the playing field by making sure everyone knows about them. How would you know if people used aqueducts as defences if they were banned? They could always be deleted before each check save. The only thing I could think of is forcing another save during each invasion and even that isn't foolproof. I can't think of anything better other than trusting people not to use them though, sorry  (More as I think of them  )
|
|
#3
04-08-2007
|
|||
|
|||
|
1. Indicated difficulty level does not necessarily reflect true difficulty level when a saved game is loaded.
I personnally play the game as asked by the CBC-team 2. Laying plazas and then undoing them causes desirability effect to remain, this is stackable. I don't use this trick... 3. Use of cheat codes included in game design. I don't use cheats..i hope other people over here don't do it too.. 4. Editing of constant files. I don't use cheats..i hope other people over here don't do it too..[ 5. Editing of map-specific files, particularly editing scripted events. Don't understand this even... 6. Gifts to Caesar (not a bug, more a cheeze). I used this in Bling and i don't see what's wrong with that 7. Ability to reduce pleb and equite wages to low levels by controlling happiness. I don't use this 8. Loss of 1 favor point at year's end does not occur if game is re-loaded from a save during the relevant year. I don't use this, i use 6 9. Free removal of underbrush, small rocks, small trees, etc by placing a structure, then undo. I use this..why not? 10 Free roads along coastline available by building then undoing ship bridges. I don't use this, this going too far 11. Micromanagement of Markets to Minimise Consumption I don't use this, this going too far 12. Delete/Undo of Unhappy Houses It happened in Bling just like that.. 13. Use of Aquaducts to Create An Impenetrable Barrier to Invaders. No, not my style 14. Fooling People Regarding Food and Commodities No, not my style..
|
|
#4
04-08-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
I have no intention of disabling the undo button, certainly it will not be disabled in either The Pink Lake or the team contest. Plazas, however, will be disabled in both. As a compensation, obelisks will be enabled.
We have long worked on a trust system. In the earlier games, particularly C3 (it is the one I am most familiar with) there are ways of cheating, mostly involving the C3model.txt file. Some of these are easier to detect than others. We've reached well over 100 contests without anyone being detected cheating and I'm sure this will continue. The advent of cheating in contests would quickly lead to the end of contests. People (myself included) have at times discovered and utilised hitherto unknown exploits in the games. These are pretty much always allowed to stand, and if necessary banned thereafter. I would be very surprised if there are not many things yet to be discovered in C4. My attitude with C4 is that I will try to close as many loopholes as possible, and those that cannot be closed, we will make players aware of so we have as level a playing field as possible. This aquaduct issue would seem to cry out for a fix from Sierra/Tilted Mill. It is common knowledge that an extraordinary amount of effort was expended getting the military side of C4 working properly, its a crying shame if something like this renders it useless. Euroallain in some contests the intention is to use the favor rating to make it necessary for the player to fulfil requests, that is if you don't send the requests you get attacked by Caesar. If you can give yourself a 30 or 40 favor boost whenever you wish, this will be negated (and most designers would increase the request failure penalties to compensate anyway). If gifts to Caesar are disabled or not allowed in a contest, it will be for this reason. There was no reason to disallow gifts in Bling, which was intended to be of gentle difficulty, so they were allowed. The underbrush one won't be banned, it appears to me to be intended by the game designers. It is included here to make players aware of it (although most would be) so we get a level playing field. No 14 might happen unintentionally, but I have no doubt that some players use it and it will continue to be allowed. The micromanagement ones were around in earlier games in the form of tax manipulation, manipulation of blessings and such things. They can give an expert player who is attempting to actually win the contest an edge. These sorts of things are time consuming and often tricky. Players just playing for the fun very rarely use micromanagement techniques. Last edited by goonsquad; 04-08-2007 at 03:37 PM.
|
|
#5
04-08-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
One bug I have recently discovered may be relevant. In Tingis, the message log stopped showing the messages at June 166. The messages were probably there, as the log showed several blank pages, but the last complete message was in May 166. I did not notice any other effects.
I have not seen this in anyone else's saved game (Tingis or any other city) so I don't know if it is ever likely to happen again.
|
|
#6
04-08-2007
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#7
04-08-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
Hopefully Kach since contest maps tend to be shorter in duration than standalone missions (and Tingis is one of the doozers, as JuliaSet would say) this won't jump up and bite us. Still, we should send this thread to TM, just in case they are by some chance contemplating another patch.
|
|
#9
04-10-2007
|
|||
|
|||
|
Aqueducts as defences:
1) When you design the scenario, pre-place a pumphouse, a length of aqueduct and a reservoir (or more than one). Then disable aqueduct. I've just tested this in the editor and it seems to work. Ok, you pre-built a city element, but there's going to be no use of aqueducts as defences in this scenario or 2) Design the map with strategically placed small lakes. Disable aqueducts, but players can get water coverage by directly connecting a reservoir to a pumphouse Or 3) same as 1 but be refined so there is a more complicated arrangement of aqueducts, so that people could delete some of it then place the pump houses and reservoirs virtually wherever they want them See my post with screenies on the TM site. Maybe this is over the top but it gives you the general idea. looks a bit silly and needs work. You'd have to add some start up money for deletion of unwated aqueducts, but then you wouldn't need the money to place them in the first place. http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/sho...&postcount=475 Last edited by Herodotus; 04-10-2007 at 01:27 PM.
|
|
#10
04-10-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
That is an excellent suggestion Herodotus. Maybe some aqueducts strategically placed that can be deleted as necesssary. I don't like to dictate where players must build but there is nothing to stop lots of aqueducts being placed. It is probably possible to disable them by trigger as well.
|
|
#11
04-10-2007
|
|||
|
|||
|
I have recently ran across a dandy exploit and I don't have the faintest clue how this gal/guy is doing it. Somehow they have managed to avoid paying ANY wages for the past two years. Click on a house and the occupants are happy with their wages and happy in general dispite sales and property taxes being set at 8 percent. This nifty little ploy can be easily detected by simply looking at the financial advisor's ledger.
I'm racking my brains trying to figure this out, and if I do, I'll post more. P.S. Using the double-click eviction button wouldn't work here since these are evolved insulas and domi. Just lose tons of goods and food that way, Last edited by Grumpus; 04-10-2007 at 06:40 PM.
|
|
#12
04-11-2007
|
|||
|
|||
|
Happiness is a key!
I believe that Boudica has addressed some of the how to in his excellent post plus run the city at a negative for a while(kills your prosperity but it comes back fast when you are back in surplus) and presto no wages need to be paid. There is some timing in it(got to get them to the city first) plus (this is a guess) I think that a new city is a tad bit more lenient than an old city?
It is a guy. Last edited by Dalan; 04-11-2007 at 01:07 PM.
|
|
#13
04-11-2007
|
|||
|
|||
|
http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12643
This is a link to the forums where there is a discussion on wages.
|
|
#15
04-13-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
Dalan, something you should know- Boudica is a she not a he. In fact five of the nine players who entered Bling hard are female. And the beta tester too. We have some real girl power going here.
The original Boudica was the Queen of the Iceni Celts and is the woman depicted aboard the Celt chariots in C3 and is also depicted in Boudica's avatar, which I believe is a statue in London. Boudica led the Iceni in sacking Londinium around 61AD after the Roman legions had committed some nasty atrocities against her tribe and family.
|
|
#17
07-08-2007
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Doh! Also, might as well add the fact that mothballed homes still count towards God Bonuses
|
|
#18
07-08-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
I keep forgetting.
 I mentioned it here. Also, you don't need to staff the trading ports if you are only importing goods and not exporting goods. I didn't remember this one until the contest was almost finished.
|
|
#19
08-25-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
I have just stickied this thread.
Two new (to this thread) bugs, if you can call them that. Relevent to The Final Deception which is in beta right now. 1. This was pointed out in C4 Heaven by Kach. Soldiers on their way to fort when an invasion arrives (causing the cohort to auto-deploy) vanish into thin air, taking their weapons and armor with them. So don't build new forts when an invasion is expected soon, rather build immediately after an invasion. 2. Cohorts training in a drill yard often do not obey orders to return to fort. You can work around this by multi-selecting a deployed cohort and the cohort in the drill yard and ordering them to the location required.
|
|
#21
09-02-2007
|
|||
|
|||
|
OK, Not a bug, (I thought it was at first) but a warning.
I don't suppose Goonsquad has scripted any earthquakes, but make sure the earthquake has good and finished before you replace any destroyed buildings. I replaced a Lion Trainer Guild that was destroyed in a quake when I thought the quake was over - the shaking had stopped - but too soon and it became derelict again. (It was as if the replacement building had "remembered" the damage from the old building) BTW if you want earthquakes try Hieronymus' Mons Argeus here http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13280 I started it, but put it on the backburner (whatever that means) Last edited by Herodotus; 09-02-2007 at 04:50 AM.
|
|
#26
09-02-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
More issues:
1. Defeated enemies remain on map for many months, leading to confusing/inappropriate messages. You tend to receive a message that you have won a battle just before the next one arrives. 2. The message log only holds so many messages, and any after that are blank. I recall seeing this mentioned on HG some time back.
|
|
#27
09-03-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
JuliaSet.... there is an easy workaround for most of those unpredictable events. I'll forward you my last email to Goonsquad and with his permission, perhaps post it here? But ouch... I feel like I got scolded! :-)
__________________
 Oh. My. God. She's found the keys to the medicine cabinet.
|
|
#28
09-07-2007
|
|||
|
|||
|
Heh Heh, just warming up with Moguntiacum.
You probably know all this but... >> If the enemy has been defeated but they still show on the minimap and you haven't got the "enemy defeated" message yet... You can tell because on the military placement menu you can now place military items again - ie they are blue and not redded out >>Towers not placed centrally on walls will not spawn wallguards. The little door must be on the wall walkway. >> If you place a tower, then click undo, it will destroy a section of wall.
|
|
#29
09-24-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
- Recalling them to their fort. - Mothballing the drill yard. - Deleting the drill yard. - Failing all the above, mostly but not always they will auto deploy next time you are invaded, but you may need to move them out of the drill yard during the invasion. This is perhaps one of the more annoying bugs in C4.
|
|
#30
09-27-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
The original post in this thread is edited to indicate that building aqueducts with illegally spaced piers and covering them with walls is illegal.
Not wanting to ban having normal aqueducts inside walls as this seems to have been part of the game design.
|
|
#32
11-28-2007
|
||||
|
||||
|
The following added to the first post of this thread.
16. Wage and Tax Manipulation It is possible to manipulate taxes and wages using a factory as a clock and changing rates just before the month changes over, and again just after the month changes. Similar to the exploit used in C3. Designers may if they wish rule no tax and/or wage changes in a mission, but this has other consequences. Players cannot then alter taxes or wages having raised the happiness of their citizens by legitimate means, which is certainly a valid strategy. 17. Absence of Credit Limit Although the map editor has the facility to set a credit limit, this does not work in-game. Hence a player can amass a huge debt in order to get a city built and functioning very quickly, and this often leads to a strong economic position. Designers can overcome this issue in several ways. It is possible to script defeat at a certain level of debt (this leads to sudden loss of the mission), it is also possible to script other events like earthquakes and fires in response to debt over a certain level. Additionally, it is possible to disable gifts to Caesar which means the player in debt is unable to counteract the favor loss that this causes.
|
|
#33
02-03-2008
|
||||
|
||||
Military Training Tip
 Quote:
 I thought I would post this here as well as in the game thread. Thanks Goonsquad. 
Last edited by JuliaSet; 02-03-2008 at 10:28 PM. Reason: Edited as per goonsquad's info.
|
|
#35
02-04-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#37
03-17-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
Proposed addition:
18. Repeated Salary payments If a player saves a game immediately after receiving their monthly salary, and reloads from this save, they will be paid that month's salary again. This process can be repeated (it seems) almost indefinitely. The salary payments are still taken from the treasury, and if the salary level exceeds the governor's rank, the favor penalty will still be incurred each time. The bug thus becomes significant in a contest like Arabian Bizarre where the level of personal savings forms part of the win criteria. It's effect can be limited by imposing a cap on any points that may be accrued from personal savings. It would also be quite possible to detect any repeated salary payments by scripting. From analysis of the saves received, it seems that most players benefited from the bug without realising it, to varying degrees (fortunately this did not affect any of the placings). How much a player benefits depends on their style of play: a player who saves regularly and tackles a scenario over many sessions in an incremental fashion will benefit more than a player who plays over longer sessions with saves at ad-hoc intervals. My thanks go to Inka who was the first to report the bug to me, and also to Herodotus, who discovered and reported it the following day. According to some labbing done by Herodotus, the bug seems to work in all months apart from January (though I have not confirmed this yet). As an example of the exploit, I started up Arabian Bizarre, set salary to 200dn, and managed to receive enough payments to open the savings trade route in February of the first year (which requires 1670dn, or at least 9 salary payments). Last edited by Hieronymus; 03-17-2008 at 02:09 AM.
|
|
#39
03-19-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
During Arabian Bizarre Herodotus reported the following exploit to me, that he had stumbled across when labbing the salary bug (as it involves the same trick). What follows is exactly how he described it in his PM to me (I haven't done any serious labbing on this yet):
If you reload a save, any mothballed homes with red or orange faces (and therefore uninhabitable for a while) will lose this status and become new again. This is how it can be exploited: In a typical startup city with water, mercury & jupiter shrines, odeum and school you need 4 unevolved domus. The domus will get upset if they don't get paid, have food and luxuries etc. If you actually build another 4 domus and mothball the first 4, they equites will move in usually immediately. Then save and reload. The upset faces on the mothballed domus will disappear immediately. In a couple of months when they are starting to get upset again, you just mothball the 2nd 4 and unmothball the 1st 4 again, and swap the equites over. Repeat as necessary. In this way you never have to pay the equites or feed them or provide luxuries etc until you have a substantial export industry and are ready to expand your city. In the past, I would have just deleted the domus and rebuilt them, but this saves the cost of doing this. You can probably do something similar with the plebs, at least on a smaller scale - maybe just a few that need doing, but it may not be worth the bother.
|
|
#40
03-19-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
Another one to report - it's not really an exploit, more something a designer has to be aware of to avoid it becoming one. And it's in two parts.
1. If closing a trade route in the script, the traders will still come to the city for the rest of the year. In Arabian Bizarre I had to get around this by locking the trade depot building buttons. Otherwise players could have paid to open a trade route at the start of a year and take advantage of the generous export opportunities available - easily more than enough in a year to pay for the cost of opening. However, as goonsquad has pointed out, the bug could still be used to a player's advantage. 2. If the script attempts to open a trade route that is already open, two things happen. One is that a new trader is spawned. The other is that the count of goods traded is reset to zero. This would actually allow a trade route to trade in more goods during a year than should normally be possible. A sneaky designer could take advantage of this bug if they wanted  Not that I would ever do that of course 
|
|
#41
03-22-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
I found in The Final Deception that if a trade route is closed by the script, and remains closed beyond the end of that year, the trade quotas are not reset until such time as the route is re-opened, even into the new year. However, if a route is closed and then re-opened in the same year, the count is reset. I didn't cotton onto this until very late in the piece and so didn't manage to gain any advantage from it that I am aware of.
I will include these glitches in item 16 of the first post of this thread.
|
|
#42
04-26-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#43
06-11-2008
|
|||
|
|||
|
Cohort trapped in Wall revisited
I've just seen how this happens having watched a cohort walk into a wall and stay there during the Military tutorial.
It's what happens if you build a wall just after you ordered a cohort to move there. I think it may even happen if you've ordered the cohort just to pass through where you then place the wall. Solution appears to be to make sure your cohorts have stopped moving before you build a wall in the area.
|
|
#44
06-11-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
Cohorts also can get trapped in walls when they are damaged by a catapult. Obvious solution is to delete then rebuild. What I've always found amusing though is when deleting a section of wall and watching the little "wall patrolmen" fall screaming and flailing. (we all know I'm just not right...)
__________________
Oh. My. God. She's found the keys to the medicine cabinet.
|
|
#45
06-13-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#47
07-06-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
A "bug" that was noticed on the TM forums (sorry, not sure yet where original post was but will edit when I find it) and it's "fix."
http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/sho...4&postcount=36 In regards to mouse/pointer getting stuck on the wall symbol during invasions.
__________________
Oh. My. God. She's found the keys to the medicine cabinet.
|
|
#48
10-13-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
I have edited Item 6 slightly (to reflect the ability to disable gift and personal salary buttons) and added Item 19, pertaining to sending cohorts to fulfill a military request from the time expired pop-up.
__________________
 
|
|
#49
10-14-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
Note there are currently two items numbered 16 in the list...
 We were also discussing some further observations you'd made about opening and closing trade routes, GS - with which my testing since then pretty much concurs. What I appear to be seeing from labbing is that if you close a trade route by the script, the traders will still continue to come to the city until either the following January (i.e. to the end of the current year) or 12 months after the route was opened, whichever is the later. For the "other" item 16 (wage/tax manipulation) it is possible through scripting to disable the buttons that allow the wage rate to be changed. This limits the effect of the exploit, but also (of course) means that the player no longer can vary wages in a "legitimate" manner as per item 7. Last edited by Hieronymus; 10-14-2008 at 01:23 AM.
|
|
#50
10-14-2008
|
||||
|
||||
|
I've fixed the two item 16's issue.
You can, of course, make trade cease precisely when you want by having trade stations collapse but as far as I know you can only do this to all or a certain number of one of the types (land or sea). The player can then rebuild those that are still open but not those that have been closed. Probably not feasible if there are many trade routes but could be if there are only a couple. Made another interesting discovery regarding trade as well, but I won't make it public at this stage as it is an integral part of the next C4 contest. Edit: Also edited the remaining item 16 re opening and closing of trade routes by scripting.
__________________
|
|
#52
01-31-2009
|
||||
|
||||
|
This will shock everyone:
Quote:
|
|
#54
02-03-2009
|
||||
|
||||
|
Thanks for advising us kach
It is a howler, and has already prompted design changes in Insanity Rising and Come Together, though these fit in well with the scenarios. In fact we can guarantee that NO ONE will be able to exploit this bug in the former.
|
|
#55
02-03-2009
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
  Are you a victim? Of anything? Become a survivor by working for change. If anyone else suffers less than I did, then my pain has served a purpose and I hurt less. Try it! http://c3modsquad.freeforums.org/
|
|
#56
02-03-2009
|
||||
|
||||
|
Really? I never thought of that...
  Also there's a recurring invasion that you DON'T want to defeat or bribe, but that's another matter... 
|
|
#57
03-04-2009
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#58
04-22-2009
|
||||
|
||||
|
Just in time for the team contest, the French translation of the list of bugs, etc, has now been completed. I'm more than happy to add a German translation as well if someone will send such to me by PM or e-mail.
__________________
|
|
#59
04-23-2009
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
 Great thank for that !!! 
|
|
#60
04-23-2009
|
||||
|
||||
|
Schwartzhorse sent me the last few points of the translation some weeks ago but I forgot to complete the task of editing. Even though she's a mod now she cannot edit this thread (nor can I for that matter except for my own post). With the team contest imminent I received a very friendly reminder, and so here it is.
__________________
|
 |
| Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
I didn't play for 166 years. It happened after 8 years. Tingis starts in 158 AD.
Linear Mode
